Transcript

[00:00:00] Multiple Voices: Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. Fundraising everywhere. , you don’t need to add me in there.

[00:00:31] Jade Cunnah: Welcome to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. Your go-to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear. Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts, and more. Just head on over to fundraising everwhere.com/podcast to subscribe Now onto today’s episode, enjoy.

[00:00:59] Simon Scriver: This is where I need a theme song. I know. And actually you are, you’re, you’re a theme song person, aren’t you’re a musical, musical theater or just theater? Yeah. Well, it

[00:01:07] Kel Haney: used to be mostly just regular theater. I did, uh, every once in a while, um, develop musicals, but it was always musicals that were things that I’d wanna hear.

[00:01:16] Kel Haney: Um, in my free time. So it was never like very like show toy type musicals. It was always like a little more like rocky folky type thing. So

[00:01:24] Simon Scriver: you’re not into the show tunes?

[00:01:26] Kel Haney: Not really. Um, my husband is, my husband’s an actor. Okay. He is. And my best friend is. So when they’re together. Um, there’s a lot of, um, singing musicals and harmonizing.

[00:01:37] Kel Haney: I’m like, I don’t even know what my life is right now. So,

[00:01:40] Simon Scriver: do you know what I, I always end up getting, talking about musicals on this podcast. I dunno if there’s a high, like the Venn diagram of fundraisers and musical Yeah. Theater

[00:01:48] Kel Haney: kids. Theater kids, theater kids. I mean, I’ve written about that a lot, about the things that are overlapping skills between artists and fundraisers and, um, I really love to train people who are artists to be fundraisers, so I do a lot of that.

[00:02:04] Simon Scriver: That’s funny.

[00:02:04] Kel Haney: Yeah.

[00:02:05] Simon Scriver: Oh, all right. Well, let, let me get into that. But first of all, I have. To do an official kickoff, do it. This is the official start. And hello everyone. Welcome, uh, to the fundraising of our podcast and perhaps you are joining us live on LinkedIn. We’re recording this live on LinkedIn. Um, so do feel free to comment and chime in and chip in and say hello to our guest today.

[00:02:23] Simon Scriver: And we’ve already got some musical fans appearing in the chat.
Yes, love it Eric.

[00:02:28] Simon Scriver: Um, but my name is Simon Scriver. I am the co-founder of Fundraising Everywhere, and I’m your host for the podcast today. Uh, and I have a wonderful guest who’s returning to chat to us, uh, Kel Haney. So nice to see you. Yeah, how are you?

[00:02:39] Simon Scriver: So nice

[00:02:40] Kel Haney: to see you, Simon. I’m doing great. How are you?

[00:02:43] Simon Scriver: I’m great. And we, we’ve had you speak, um, with us before, but we were, for us, this is our, this is our kind of face-to-face and telephone model. Yes. So for anyone who’s watching, we get this, this month in April with, we’re all about face-to-face and telephone and fundraising everywhere.

[00:02:58] Simon Scriver: So we have our face-to-face fundraising conference online on the 23rd of April and our telephone conference on the 24th of April. You can find the details of that in the, in the, uh. Description here, and I’m fundraising neverwhere.com. But this is why I’ve invited Kel back. ’cause Kel is, I mean, I called you jokingly, the queen of curiosity because they’re all, I love that.

[00:03:17] Kel Haney: I’ll take that. You’re these

[00:03:18] Simon Scriver: conversations and these questions and you, you’re a, but you’re a telephone person. I who, who are you, Kel You, how would you classify yourself in the world of fundraising?

[00:03:26] Kel Haney: Yeah, I’d say so. I have my own consulting firm, Haney Consulting. And I’d say that what I do is I help, um, not-for-profits.

[00:03:37] Kel Haney: Work. Um, Lauren says her screen is frozen, so maybe it’s just Lauren. Um, but anyway, what I do is I work specifically with not pro not-for-profits to build and maintain their mid-level donor base, predominantly through five minute phone calls. So the idea being that mid-level needs something specific for them, um, not-for-profits, don’t have the time, energy, resources to take all those folks out for a meal or for a beverage, but they need something more specific than grassroots, segmented emails and, you know, highly curated letter appeals.

[00:04:10] Kel Haney: They need something else. And that’s where five minute phone calls come in. And

[00:04:16] Simon Scriver: would you call yourself a naturally, I mean, naturally do you find these phone calls quite easy? ’cause I mean, especially what, what we’re talking about today is this feeling, this ick feeling. Mm-hmm. I think most, if, if not all fundraisers have felt one time that kind of awkwardness when you’re starting, especially, uh, asking fundraising.

[00:04:32] Simon Scriver: Yeah. But, but actually, I mean, in our world we deal with so many people in terms of board members and volunteers who are so hesitant to have these. Mm-hmm. Fundraising conversations, are you naturally, do you naturally enjoy these or is this something that you’ve had to work on and you, you, you manage?

[00:04:48] Kel Haney: I’m one of the lucky few that naturally enjoys it.

[00:04:51] Kel Haney: Um, but it’s coming from a place I know as you’re just kind of like recoil, like I can’t even believe that. Um, so yeah, I was the young person. Like as a kid, I love to be on the phone. So, and you know, I’m an elder millennial, so I was on the phone and I remember my dad would be my assistant and would like take messages from me while I was doing my homework.

[00:05:09] Kel Haney: ’cause all I wanted to do. Was be on the phone. So in my early twenties, I needed to do something to support myself as a theater director. It won’t come as a surprise to not-for-profit folks, but theater directors, particularly when they’re starting, don’t make much money. So I needed to do something. So I started fundraising over the phone for the theater that I wanted to run someday, and I ended up.

[00:05:32] Kel Haney: Raising personally, roughly $6 million in less than eight years. All in gifts of $2,000 and under, because I was talking about my favorite thing. So I didn’t have a background in fundraising. I didn’t have a background in sales, but I did, like you said, like curiosity is something that’s already always, um, been something that leads me and connecting to others, like that’s what I really love to do.

[00:05:52] Kel Haney: So what I’ve since then done is like reversed engineered why I was able to do that, and that’s what my trainings become. So I work with people with all levels of comfort. And like you said, like my little catch phrase is taking the ick out of the ask. And so we are all just a focus group of one. And that’s the big thing to remember is you can say, Simon, here’s how I would feel comfortable if someone talked to me, or This is what makes me feel comfortable as a fundraiser.

[00:06:22] Kel Haney: And that’s specifically just you. That’s not universal. And I think that’s the hardest thing for us. To continue to remember is like truly what is universal is wanting to connect with others, wanting to be seen, wanting to be heard. And so how can we get over our own obstacles in order to be vulnerable, candid, curious, courageous, even with the other person to a place of, it’s really about how do we like, take care of them and make sure that they feel seen and heard, and that we’re making space for them.

[00:06:55] Kel Haney: So it’s about hosting. I think it’s like we host the calls.

[00:06:59] Simon Scriver: So you, you, you work, you obviously work with lots of different organizations now, and you have some great resources on your website on kel haney.com and, and you’re very vocal on LinkedIn about that stuff, which I love.

[00:07:10] Kel Haney: Yeah.

[00:07:10] Simon Scriver: But in terms of now shifting and working with so many other people, mm-hmm.

[00:07:15] Simon Scriver: Do you find there’s a common theme of what’s holding them back? I mean, I always feel people are held back from the phone and it’s like, what are, what are the main hurdles that people have before they pick up that phone? I.

[00:07:26] Kel Haney: That’s a great question. There’s lots of them. One of them is just being afraid to, like, I like to say, and again, it’s theater speak, but show the seams.

[00:07:35] Kel Haney: Like everybody wants to be perfect. So we all know we can hide behind our laptops, behind our keyboards and be like, I’m gonna perfect the perfect email and then I’m gonna send it off. So it’s about us feeling like. It per perfection and perfection to me also equals armor of like, well, you can’t hurt me.

[00:07:53] Kel Haney: I can’t come across as vulnerable. I can’t fail if I am pursuing perfection. Perfection isn’t possible on these calls, nor is it something we should be pursuing. So I like to say scripts are for actors. They’re not for fundraisers, in my opinion. That doesn’t mean we can’t have specific messaging. I mean, again, what I teach is like very specifically these tent poles of here are like particular moments that you’re gonna reach in the call.

[00:08:20] Kel Haney: Um, but it really is from a place of, um, just having some structure as opposed to a script because how can you, you can’t have a genuine conversation if only one person of the two people in a quote unquote scene has the script. Mm. And

[00:08:37] Simon Scriver: they’re not reading the script. The other person isn’t reading the script.

[00:08:40] Simon Scriver: No,

[00:08:40] Kel Haney: exactly. And if we’re reading a script like, does that mean we’re being ourselves? Mm, no, it doesn’t. It means that we are like a scripted version of ourselves, and we live in such a world that is so curated where we are all marketed to tens of thousands of times a day. We can all sniff it from a mile away when someone is being genuine with us.

[00:09:00] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. When someone is being like too slick or too sleek and too polished. So the big thing I think is getting over the fact that you’re gonna get on these calls, you’re gonna be yourself, you’re going to be vulnerable, and perfection isn’t the goal. And I think that’s the hardest part.

[00:09:15] Simon Scriver: I, I think that’s really important, this idea.

[00:09:17] Simon Scriver: ’cause I think you do see going into phones, people, people are afraid of the unknown. You know, they’re afraid of being put on the spot.
Yeah. Yeah. And

[00:09:25] Simon Scriver: you feel like because you’re representing the organization, you should have the answers to everything. But do you know what the, the three most beautiful words in the English language?

[00:09:32] Simon Scriver: I don’t know

[00:09:33] Kel Haney: exactly when,

[00:09:34] Simon Scriver: when someone says, I don’t know, you’re. Suddenly I have confidence in them that they’re not bullshitting me. Yes, yes. Like suddenly it’s like, but it’s like, I don’t know, but I’ll find out for you and, and, and, exactly. I, I think like no one holds that against you on the phone. If you don’t know something, yeah.

[00:09:48] Simon Scriver: You can go away and it’s almost a reason to follow up with them again.

[00:09:51] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well,

[00:09:54] Simon Scriver: um, so when you’re, when you’re working with these people, uh, or you know, when you’re helping people start picking up the phone mm-hmm. If you are moving them away from script mm-hmm. How do you start to structure their call?

[00:10:05] Simon Scriver: Like what’s, I know there’s a bit, that’s a lot to unpack and we’ve got lots of different organizations listening, but what is that general structure that you’re looking for in the phone call? Especially in the early parts of that phone call that was so nervous about.

[00:10:16] Kel Haney: Yeah, I can, I’ll just go ahead and I’ll just share the four tent poles and you know, you can hop on my website for, but Oh yeah, no, it’s so easy.

[00:10:24] Kel Haney: So basically what I like to think about is that, like to think about this conversation you’re gonna have over the phone as a tent. So, and when I say tent, I don’t mean the time kind that you take camping. I make mean the kind that you might have had a reunion or a graduation or in my case. A more DIY than we anticipated wedding off the coast of Portland, Maine.

[00:10:45] Kel Haney: So this idea that you’ve got a tent, right? And so we can call our community members into conversation with us under this tent. What I love about tents is that they don’t have doors, they don’t have windows. People can come and go. As they please. The other thing I love about tents is that they’re movable.

[00:11:01] Kel Haney: So this conversation right now can be about that spring gala that you’re having, that you’re having trouble selling tickets to, and then you can check in over the summer with your summer campaign or when we get to giving Tuesday year end like or capital campaign that’s coming up, you can move that tent different places.

[00:11:17] Kel Haney: So there’s four tent poles I recommend when you’re on the phone. The first tent pole is the first 15 seconds. So this is when you’re calling the community member further into your organization, like you’re basically building some rapport with them and some trust immediately. So I recommend not just pick up the phone.

[00:11:36] Kel Haney: Ring, ring, ring. Hi, am I speaking with Simon? Hi Simon. My name’s Kel. I’m calling from organization X, Y, Z. How are you today? Is this an okay time to talk? There’s a lot of space there, which I’m inspired by Malcolm Gladwell’s, um, blink. So like we make split, um, second determinations about who we’re talking to and why.

[00:11:54] Kel Haney: So we need to immediately disarm the other person and get them to know I’m talking to somebody directly at this not-for-profit. I’m not talking to, um, I’m not talking to a scammer or a robocaller, even a telemarketer, like I’m talking to somebody. And what I do is I train internal teams and I also build.

[00:12:12] Kel Haney: Part-time teams that work directly for the organization. Hmm. So for me, the secret sauce is getting the people on the phone as closely connected to the organization as possible.
Hmm. So

[00:12:23] Kel Haney: that’s 10 pole number one. Tentpole number two really quickly is the main event, and I misspoke. This is actually where you’re calling the community member further into your, um, conversation with you and your org.

[00:12:35] Kel Haney: So this is a great place to just share any kind of updates. So the kinds of things that you’re putting into newsletters or things that actually, what I love about the phone is we can be a little bit more extemporaneous. Things that maybe we aren’t ready to share. In a press release yet, but we have gotten the okay to whisper campaign about it.

[00:12:52] Kel Haney: We can share what’s coming up. We can share wins. I recommend share sharing. Also just changes in staffing and leadership. I think people who don’t work in the social impact sector have no idea what the turnover is, and we should call them into understand that. Mm. Regardless of what you share, obviously if you’ve got some kind of experiential component that’s the best, like a way that they can engage with your organization, either in real life.

[00:13:16] Kel Haney: Or online, like that’s the best thing to share and invite them to. Is that like

[00:13:19] Simon Scriver: a venue to visit? Is that like a project to visit?

[00:13:22] Kel Haney: Yeah, like, I mean, this works really well. Most of my clients right now are theaters I work with like museums, botanical gardens, other performing arts organizations. Um, it works really well when there’s like something they can go to.

[00:13:35] Kel Haney: It also works really well with grassroots organizations. So like if there’s like a specific local thing that you can connect somebody to, that works really well. I

[00:13:45] Simon Scriver: mean, I mean it’s, it’s news, I suppose it’s news that’s relevant to the organization and them that you’re, that’s why you’re ringing to update them.

[00:13:52] Kel Haney: Exactly. Exactly. And then also in that moment, what I would say is no matter what your final update, and I wouldn’t say, oh, I’ve gotta go through these six things. I would have like maybe four or five and just kind of like pick them out of the air. I like to pretend like. Um, I’m at a booth, like a balloon booth and pulling down one balloon at a time because we don’t wanna overwhelm people.

[00:14:14] Kel Haney: So it’s like we wanna guide them through the call you. It’s not like I must share all these bullet points. Mm-hmm. You see where the conversation is going with them. Mm-hmm. But what’s really important, so Simon, is that the last 10, the last like update that you’re sharing? Intent poll number two needs to be about fundraising.

[00:14:32] Kel Haney: Because your organization should be fundraising all the time, and there should always be some kind of campaign that you are starting, that you are ending, that you’re gearing up for. So what I recommend is just sharing with the community member I. Well, we’re getting geared up for our spring fundraiser.

[00:14:50] Kel Haney: We’re trying to raise $50,000 by the end of June. We’re just getting started. This is, you know, kicking off, starting right now. It’s technically supposed to start April 1st, but I’m getting started now. Mm-hmm. So talking about, and we’ve got a one-to-one match, matches are magic. Mm-hmm. You know, we could do a whole session about that sometime if you want, but, um, it really is about in that moment.

[00:15:14] Kel Haney: Getting them to understand that what is going on, what the update is with your fundraising is just the same as sharing your wins, as sharing invites, as sharing changes in staffing. So there hasn’t been an ask. So you’ll notice that I called tent poll number two, the main event. That’s not the ask.
Hmm.

[00:15:34] Kel Haney: Okay. So the ask is actually Temple number three. So if I’m talking to you and I’m telling you all about this great fundraiser we have coming up, we’re talking about that email that you really responded to, that video we had in there. We’re talking about the new leadership we have, and I’m also saying the other thing that’s going on, Simon, is we do have this fundraiser and I’m telling you about the current fundraising campaign.

[00:15:57] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. So I’m just sharing, calling you in to understand that’s what’s happening at the org. Hmm. So then I can say to you. Temple number three. Easy segue into it. Simon, it’s so great to talk to you. I so appreciate you hearing me out about everything that’s going on on our org. Please think about joining us for that event on April 22nd.

[00:16:17] Kel Haney: Um, but also, you know, we are just starting this fundraiser. You were so great. The end of the calendar year. You did a $750 donation to us. In December, we still appreciate it. Um, as I mentioned, all of our gifts right now are matched one-to-one with the spring campaign, so I’m just gonna shoot for the moon and see if there’s a world in which you would do a gift of a thousand dollars with me today as part of our spring campaign.

[00:16:42] Simon Scriver: I, I love your referencing kind of their past activity. Yes. You know, that it really, it really takes the spams mm-hmm. Out of the calls, you know, like, it feels like you are just calling Kel, like you’re not calling everyone today, you’ve decided to pick up the phone and call Cal, and that’s really what you’re trying to get across.

[00:17:00] Kel Haney: Yeah. And when the CRMs are. Customer relationship manager, like when your notes are really clear, like just, and again, another thing that happens is people fall into the trap of spending five minutes looking at somebody’s account. You don’t need five minutes, but as you get comfortable, you should take 30 seconds or a minute just to like.

[00:17:17] Kel Haney: See if they have a spouse, see if they have a nickname, see what their last, what their giving history has been. Again, if there’s an experiential component, have they been to the venue lately? Just have that at the top of your mind slash they’re not looking at you. So you can, as you’re talking to them, also be looking, reminding yourself of what’s going on in their CRM in the moment, and like specificity really is key.

[00:17:40] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. So that’s the other thing I watch people really afraid. So many times I work with organizations, they don’t even know how much they’re trying to fundraise.
Let alone

[00:17:49] Kel Haney: what they should be asking of this individual person. So I see that a whole lot and whenever I’m talking to a client about people that they’re calling and they’ll say, oh, I’ve got this lapse donor, or this $750 donor, and the first thing I say, Simon, is, what is their name?

[00:18:06] Kel Haney: Like, what’s their name? Like let’s refer to this person by their name. Because yeah, it’s all about making it as catered to the person as possible. And that gets hard sometimes, especially for people who’ve built their careers in the social impact sector. ’cause most people came up first. Like just basically, I.

[00:18:22] Kel Haney: You know, doing all of the data work. And so like mm-hmm. There’s like a real data driven way of looking at all of this that is much more, um, quantitative instead of qualitative. And so there really is like making sure we’re figuring out how to build that muscle as well. That it’s really like, how do we make this as personal, as specific, as hospitable to the individual as possible?

[00:18:44] Kel Haney: That’s,

[00:18:45] Simon Scriver: that’s really interesting. I think, I think some people. Struggle with where it sits on the scale between like an informal call versus a very formal call. Mm-hmm. And I’ve heard, you know, when some people struggle, especially when they’re starting. It can sound very much like a bank or a credit card that’s phoning.

[00:19:00] Simon Scriver: Do you know, and I know we’re obviously trying to move away from that, but I know there’s still that fear sometimes. You know, I, I thought it when you said the phrase, um, shooting for the shoot for the moon.
Yeah. You know, in

[00:19:11] Simon Scriver: your ass. And I, and I can just picture some board members kind of recoiling a bit at that thinking, ooh, that, you know, is this gonna upset the doctors on our database and stuff like that.

[00:19:21] Simon Scriver: What’s your, what’s your thoughts on that?

[00:19:22] Kel Haney: Yeah, I mean, my thought is that you’re trying to build a. Personal relationships as possible. And I find that people, uh, really do recoil when we are a little too, um, buttoned up with ’em when they’re, we’re a little too business. We’re a little too professional. Um, I’m American, so that’s a whole other I.

[00:19:42] Kel Haney: You know, like cultural situation. But I do think finding the way to feel, I want you to feel like you’re calling, um, an acquaintance that you’re calling somebody that you might not be really close to, but somebody that you are close to. Do is close to that person. Mm-hmm. I want it to feel like a synchronistic moment of you’re at the farmer’s market and you just end up talking to the person who’s behind you in line, or you know you’re at an arts event and you end up talking to the person sitting next to you.

[00:20:12] Kel Haney: Hmm. So it’s not so informal, like you’re talking to you’re best friend or someone in your family, but at the same time there, I think there should be a warmth and a personality that echoes how you would be if you met somebody at a party.

[00:20:25] Simon Scriver: I find, I find like the neighbor analogy is quite a good one. Great.

[00:20:28] Simon Scriver: You kind got, that neighbor is great. Again, that shared community thing. But yes. I love that you, you’d be cautious about what you say to them. Well, some, sometimes not.
[00:20:35] Kel Haney: Yeah. No, I mean that can get, that can get, that can get complicated. I mean, I would say maybe even more to the neighbors. It’s like you’ve got.

[00:20:43] Kel Haney: Um, some like shared interest and passion with this person, and I think that’s to remember, and I, I don’t recommend that we’re cold calling anybody that isn’t already connected to our organization. It’s too much time, money and resources to be on these calls to like, I think to make it a cold call. Like I really recommend that once somebody already has some kind of relationship with your organization, is when you’re making these calls,

[00:21:07] Simon Scriver: well, well, let’s take a step back that, but first of all I wanna say ’cause because what I want is people who are listening to this and watching this.

[00:21:12] Simon Scriver: To con to to end this and know exactly what they’re doing next. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the first things I’m gonna tell them to do is, as soon as this, uh, recording finishes, you’re gonna go to kel haney.com. Yeah. Um, and you’re gonna, you’re gonna download these resources. ’cause there there’s some really good stuff that’s gonna help people start that.

[00:21:28] Simon Scriver: You’re also gonna book your ticket to the telephone fundraising conference, which is happening, uh, at fundraising of red.com on the 24th of April. Um, and the face-to-face fundraising conference, which is happening on the 23rd of April, that’s. Two virtual events, which you can find at fundraisingeverywhere.com.

[00:21:41] Simon Scriver: So you’re gonna try all of that. But then Kel, you’re talking about data there. Who, who’s the first person that someone listening to this is gonna pick up the phone? Who is, who is the person that’s most likely gonna respond to us and engage with us on our database?

[00:21:55] Kel Haney: The most likely is someone who gave around this time last year.

[00:21:59] Kel Haney: So start there. And then

[00:22:00] Simon Scriver: I, I love, it’s so rare in fundraising you get an answer, like a clear answer. It was amazing.

[00:22:06] Kel Haney: I’ve been doing it, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. Like I, I, I really have the, the data and the experience. So I’d say start, I mean, part of it is that if someone already has the habit of giving to your org and giving it to your org this time of year.

[00:22:19] Kel Haney: Check in with them first. Um, after that I would say check in, like givers give. So I would say check in with anyone who you thought was going to give potentially with your year end campaign or whenever your last campaign was, and they didn’t give check in with them. Tell them you missed them around here.

[00:22:37] Kel Haney: Tell them like how much you’ve appreciated their, their support. Be specific about the amount the last time they gave. Ask them, you know, curiosity. Are they opening the emails? Are they, do they know what’s going on? It doesn’t look like they’ve attended an event. Like, are they still in the area? Are they not?

[00:22:53] Kel Haney: What, what’s going on with them? Mm. So the second people are people who, that you anticipated were gonna give in the last year and who didn’t. Um, and then after that, I would say anyone who has recently engaged with your org, who’s new. Or new-ish.

[00:23:08] Simon Scriver: Hmm. I, I love you because you throw out so many questions that you could ask these donors, and I feel like, because I think that’s gonna be most people’s fearing question coming outta this is, what do I say initially?

[00:23:20] Simon Scriver: Mm-hmm. But I mean, the way you kind of talk about that call structure, it sounds very much like, almost like a feedback call. With perhaps an ask Yeah. Coming later. But you are, you are, you are going in, you’re asking questions, why did you make this donation? Um, why did you come to the event last year? What did you think this, how has your experience been?

[00:23:37] Simon Scriver: Yeah. It’s that kind of fact finding mission, isn’t it? Which I, yeah, for me really takes the fear outta it. Like that’s what got me. Into telephone run for fundraising and enjoy it was realizing I wasn’t asking for money. I was asking about them and then finding out where they fit with us.

[00:23:53] Kel Haney: Exactly.

[00:23:54] Simon Scriver: You are the, you are the queen of curiosity, aren’t you?

[00:23:56] Simon Scriver: You are. Thank you.

[00:23:57] Kel Haney: I try to be, I will say that with that first 15 seconds, I do think it’s important to share with that person that they gave, you’d love to give them, get them more involved. You’re getting ready to start your spring fundraiser, but first, and for. Foremost, ask the curious questions. Hmm. So that you’re setting up the moment that like, yes, it can be both.

[00:24:17] Kel Haney: There can be a soft ask in addition to these curious questions, but I think it’s really important to be transparent about that in the first 15 seconds so the person doesn’t feel bait and switch of, oh, I thought you were just calling like with questions. Yeah. And now you’re asking like, that’s icky. So instead it’s just to say, yeah, fundraising is part of what we do.

[00:24:36] Kel Haney: You did this amount. We’re gonna have our spring event. We’d love to get you more involved. I also am curious about X, Y, Z, and then to your point about who you should call before, even those metrics I mentioned, I think anybody in your community that you’re curious about what’s going on with them of, oh, even if it’s a thank you, even if it’s a, we just got a $10,000 check and we have no idea why.

[00:24:58] Kel Haney: Call that person, thank them. Ask them why so, or why did that person disappear? Or, you know, why did that person not attend that event? Or why hasn’t that person responded to your emails? Who usually does? So whom, whomever that person is, I recommend today, or it’s the end of your workday tomorrow. Just saying, okay, I’m gonna take even half an hour and I’m gonna make six calls to those six people that I have curious questions about what’s going on with them, um, and their relationship to our organization.

[00:25:29] Simon Scriver: So say you make these six calls, say you make a number of calls. I mean, we all know one of the, one of the difficult things about fundraising is statistically the majority of of things are gonna end in a no, you know, maybe, and not yet. If, if we wanna be positive about it. How, how do you approach that, Kyle?

[00:25:45] Simon Scriver: How do you stay in that positive mindset? Sure. How do you make sure the last call doesn’t impact the next call? Are there any tips for that? Because I know people, we really do absorb this sometimes. Yeah. Especially if we’re not used to that. Direct conversation rejection.

[00:25:58] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I think part of it, going back a step is.

[00:26:04] Kel Haney: The mindset of a no being a gift. Like I, what we need to do is remember that anything somebody is sharing with us is them being vulnerable, them sharing things they don’t need to share with us. So I think what happens a lot with fundraisers is they’re like so looking for the yes. That they’re not aware of what is the yes or the maybe or the, not now, but later in the no.

[00:26:28] Kel Haney: Mm-hmm. So to learn a little bit more. So, for instance, I have a client that talked to somebody on the phone who said, you know what? I love your organization, but we’re prioritizing travel this year, so we’re not gonna get involved. And the fundraiser said, thank you very much for letting me know, and hung up the phone.

[00:26:45] Kel Haney: So the fundraiser thought they were being polite and like backing off, but what they really did was turn that from a relationship building opportunity to a transaction. As soon as that person said, not now. They hung up the phone as opposed to saying, oh, thank you for being so candid. I’m so curious.

[00:27:03] Kel Haney: Where are you going? Yeah, like, I’d love to know where you’re going. Oh, I’ve been there. Or that’s on my list. And then you’re building that relationship, writing a couple of notes and you don’t know. I still would say, well, if things change or if you do feel like you have the resources, after all, we do have this one-to-one match.

[00:27:19] Kel Haney: It’s running through June 30th, like you know where to find us. I’ll put it in an email just so you have it. And you wanna, what you wanna always do, and this is intent poll number four, however the call is ending, is you wanna always like tell them when they’re gonna hear from the organization again. So ideally, and this is to the person who asked how to keep prospects engaged.

[00:27:39] Kel Haney: After five minute calls, they may fizzle out. Is that like there’s an accountability for. When is your organization gonna reach out again? So whether that’s double checking their email to make sure you’ve got the right email, or you’re saying, I know giving Tuesday end of calendar year, I will be making these calls again, so you might not hear from me for another.

[00:27:58] Kel Haney: 10 months, but, or I guess not 10 months, whatever that is, like eight months. But you will hear from me in eight months and in the meantime, here’s how to stay connected. So that’s a good way to keep both the organization, the fundraiser accountable and also let the community member know that just because it’s no for now, like we are still looking to build community with them, whether it is a yes.

[00:28:19] Kel Haney: Today or not. So that’s, that’s the larger way of like opening up, teasing out the no to find out what’s behind the No. How can we build relationship even in the No, and I mean, don’t get me wrong, when you’re talking about that rejection or when the calls are hard or when our nervous system is engaged, I mean, I definitely had times.

[00:28:38] Kel Haney: Like when I was doing this myself, particularly my first fundraising room was kind of a boiler room. Glen Gary coffee is foreclosure circumstance, and there were moments I would go cry in the bathroom like that that happened. So I would say like, try to not let yourself get to that point. So, mm-hmm. If you’re feeling your nervous system is engaged, get up from your desk.

[00:28:58] Kel Haney: Like take a break, walk outside. If you work from home like I do a lot of the time, pet the animal. If you have one, get yourself like the beverage, you know, the coffee you wanna drink, like take a break. It’s like fundraising is hard and it’s vulnerable, and we have to be kind to ourselves in it. So if you start feeling like it’s.

[00:29:17] Kel Haney: Starting to weigh on you. Like take that break before you get to that point that you, you know, are really emotionally engaged in that

[00:29:24] Simon Scriver: you need, you need like a bat phone number that people can call you up and you give them like that five minute pep talk. I think that,

[00:29:29] Kel Haney: yeah, well just imagine ’em on your shoulders, folks.

[00:29:32] Kel Haney: Like, I mean, I really love this and I really know that. Connecting one-on-one micro connections is what we need more than ever right now. Mm-hmm. And my goal is that both people, the fundraiser and the community member hang up the phone feeling better than they did when they picked it up. That’s truly my goal with these calls.

[00:29:49] Kel Haney: So.

[00:29:50] Simon Scriver: Well, I really, I really love what you’re, the way you’re framing it there that it’s part of this bigger journey. Do you know? And I think that is the big difference. Yeah. Like the, the, the times that I’ve loved telephone fundraising is where you’re seeing it as a conversation. You’re seeing about what’s next and it’s.

[00:30:04] Simon Scriver: It’s like you’re on this journey together because you’ve got a shared mission, really. A shared, shared values, I guess. So moving away from that transaction thinking I think, I think does really help, um, take that ick out of it. I, I’m conscious about a, a timeout. Mm-hmm. And question here from someone who’s talking about people.

[00:30:21] Simon Scriver: Keeping people engaged for those longer calls. I mean, I suppose if you’re getting into a five minute call and you’re having these conversations, they’re relatively engaged anyway, but do you have any general tips about what really keeps people engaged? You know, saying their name as part of the conversation, anything, any other quick wins that you find work for you?

[00:30:38] Kel Haney: I would say definitely share, saying their names a hundred percent. I actually recommend Erin on being a little too informal and using their first name instead of their last name if you call, you know. I just think that given where we’re going, I think that’s how we’re relating to each other more. So definitely sharing their names, um, sharing back what you’re hearing from them.

[00:30:58] Kel Haney: So if there’s a moment and you’re not quite sure where to go next in the call, just to like by yourself, a little bit more brain time, repeating back, which you’re hearing from them, I think that’s really helpful. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think the other thing is just. Sharing, given circumstances. So the given circumstance can be as simple as I have to say, this is the part of the call that makes me then most nervous, or, being on these calls isn’t my favorite part of my job, but this is what I love.

[00:31:25] Kel Haney: Like, I get a little nervous or you know, Hey, I know this is a, a hard time for us to be having these con conversations and the uncertainty in the world like you. Like that can be from like major world events. Down to just what’s going on with you in that day. Sharing given circumstances helps a lot, and it also helps to continue to go back to always knowing what your goals are for your organization.

[00:31:49] Kel Haney: That engages not just people’s like warm and fuzzy oxytocin, but they’re get it done dopamine. If they know you are just starting a fundraiser, if they know you’re about to pass your 25% marker, your 50%, your 70 or 80 or 90% and sharing, hmm. Specific numbers and going back to totally hear you if this is not for now, but here’s our given circumstances, we’re trying to raise X amount by Y date or Z away for now.

[00:32:16] Kel Haney: You know, here’s the amount I’d love to ask from you. So always calling back to the why, like your personal why about why you love this organization so much, and then the specific why of why this support is particularly impactful right now.

[00:32:31] Simon Scriver: I find, I find it very helpful talking to you, Kel. You do kind of nice you, you name, you name stuff, which I find really useful.

[00:32:37] Simon Scriver: And I will say to anyone watching I’m, I’m gonna have to start to wrap up. Unfortunately we’re running, but anyone who’s listening or watching do go to Kel haney.com. Kel haney.com. Mm-hmm. And there is, um, two free guides straight away. Eight phrases not to use in fundraising and five tips for building your mid-level donor relationships.

[00:32:54] Simon Scriver: But Kel is very active on LinkedIn, is often sharing. Yep. Stuff about this conversation, about developing this and, and really, you know, you give me and, and, and I think others confidence in it just by demystifying it a little bit. It seems so mysterious sometimes and, and there’s so much that could happen and could go wrong, but actually whenever you speak about it, it just sounds quite straightforward, you know, and, and almost we’re overthinking it.

[00:33:16] Simon Scriver: So I appreciate that. Yeah.

[00:33:17] Kel Haney: Thank you Simon, and your questions were very curious and, and I really appreciate it though.

[00:33:22] Simon Scriver: King of curiosity. Yeah. Uh, what, what else are you buzzing about at the moment on LinkedIn and everything? What, what else are you trying to get out there? What else?

[00:33:29] Kel Haney: Oh, you know, I think, um, at the moment I am really focused on, I’m, I’m on a whole bunch of podcasts right now, which is really great.

[00:33:37] Kel Haney: Yeah. Um, and I think the big thing is I’m really talking a little bit more. Specifically to theater organizations right now as they’re planning next year, as they’re planning next year’s budget to say like, don’t give up on the subscriber and membership model. I wrote about that a couple of weeks ago, or I guess a week ago, and I have got a client that actually sold out their subscriptions this year, which is like, it’s really possible to be able to engage, especially with performing arts.

[00:34:03] Kel Haney: In that way, that like that people will come on and they will sign up for multiple events. So that’s something I’m thinking about a whole lot right now.

[00:34:11] Simon Scriver: Amazing. Good stuff and keep up, keep up the theater work. Thank you. Um, and so yeah, everyone please do check out, uh, Kel’s work and what Kel’s up to. And from our point of view, remember here at Fundraising Everett, we are all about face-to-face and telephone fundraising this month, um, for the most part anyway.

[00:34:26] Simon Scriver: Um, so you will find our face-to-face fundraising conferences happening online on. 23rd of April and our telephone fundraising conferences happening online on the 24th of April. And you will find some, uh, links to that coming up or in the description, uh, of this. Um, but please do join us, but we’ll have other lots of other experts, uh, like Kel diving deep into this.

[00:34:45] Simon Scriver: And you can still find, um, uh, Cal’s last session with us on, on the Demand Library. Um, so Kel, we’re gonna have to have you back on some more. Off in the future. I love that com, but I always enjoy talking to you, so thank you so much for your time and, and I hope you have a, a lovely rest of your morning over there in the States.

[00:35:00] Kel Haney: Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you all for being here.

[00:35:03] Simon Scriver: Thank you. And thank you all for listening. Thank you all for watching if you join us live, um, I am Simon Scriber from fundraising red.com. Please do check out fundraising ever.com for the face-to-face conference and the telephone conference and for everything else we have coming up, uh, and get in touch if you ever wanna chat anything.

[00:35:19] Simon Scriver: But to all of you, I’m very grateful to be here. Lovely to speak to you all today and have a good day.

[00:35:26] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much for listening to the Fundraising Everywhere podcast. If you’re enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend? And if you would like to give us a little like or subscribe, it really helps more fundraisers like you find us.

[00:35:39] Alex Aggidis: Thank you so much. See you next time.

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